All photos were taken by Marc Yeats on Wednesday morning, the 14th. August 2019 at Gordon’s home in Wenhaston, Suffolk. Please credit any photo usage as © Marc Yeats 2019
Workshop leader: Ralph Hoyte
- You can sign up for one of our FREE Poetry Park 2-day Creative Writing Workshops by booking with Emma Fernandez. Email: firstname.lastname@example.org Mobile: 07849 748434
- You can only sign up for one 2-day workshop and must be able to commit to both workshop days (dates below):
Poetry Park 1: Eggardon Hill
2-day Creative Writing Workshop
Weekend: 17/18th June 10am-4.30pm
Poetry Park 2: Maiden Castle
2-day Creative Writing Workshop
Weekdays: 22/23rd. June for workshops 10am-4.30pm
SATSYMPH and Land Bone & Stone, lead by renowned Outdoor landscape poet, Ralph Hoyte, are excited to invite you to participate in one of two 2-day poetry workshops. We want you to create poems and poetic works inspired by two of Dorset’s most outstanding landmarks. Work arising from this process will be recorded (with your voice) and considered for inclusion in our two Poetry Park Apps, featuring Eggardon Hill and Maiden Castle.
‘A Poetry Park’ in this context means that the poetic works will, through the wonders of mobile located technologies, be physically located at Eggardon Hill and Maiden Castle. Imagine a park – and it’s full of not only trees, and ramparts, and sheep, but also of poetry. Poetry clouds wafting about!
So how do you actually hear the poetry? You download our free Poetry Parks GPS-triggered audio-apps onto your smartphone. You go to the sites (the poems can only be heard by downloading the audio-app created by SATSYMPH and actually going to Eggardon Hill and Maiden Castle), open the app and put your headphones in. Your phone knows where you are. It also knows where the poetic works are. When it locates ‘a poetry cloud’ (or ‘poem-pool’), it plays that content to you (and, no, it doesn’t need a network signal, it just needs a GPS-trigger). You can then wander both of the Poetry Parks, exploring the poetic audio-landscape and looking for (well, ‘listening out for’!) poems, some of which will be hidden.
Would you like to have your own original work hidden in the landscape for others to enjoy?
- You can sign up for one of our FREE Poetry Park 2-day Creative Writing Workshops by booking with Emma Fernandez. Email: email@example.com Mobile: 07849 748434
- You can only sign up for one 2-day workshop and must be able to commit to both workshop days (dates above):
Day 1 day is spent on location at Eggardon Hill or Maiden Castle gathering material and being inspired by the landscape, history, myth, genius loci, what landscape says about us as human beings etc., to create your own poetic work. An archeological expert will join us during the afternoon to help us uncover the secrets of the site and inspire our writing.
On Day 2, you will be able to continue working on your piece/s either on site (weather!) or in the workshop space. Your work will then be recorded (with your own voice).
SATSYMPH, then, with your permission, use your work as part of the mix to build the audio-app. Your voice is permanently inserted into the landscape for others to find and enjoy.
If your work is not used in the app it will still be published as sound-files on the South Dorset AONB’s new interactive map, on Soundcloud and on a new Facebook page for the Poetry Parks, so all recorded works will be published online.
WHAT IS NEW ABOUT THIS? We, SATSYMPH, say: ‘it’s as if the landscape is singing to you’, or, ‘it’s as if you’re in a virtual auditorium’: the literary work is experienced IN the place it was conceived
WHAT IS THE CHALLENGE? To respond (in poetry or poetic prose) to location, to the genius loci, to history, to myth, to the natural world, to the bones of the earth, the sociology of location, your own inner voice, by creating a new poetic work.
WHERE ARE THE LOCATIONS? The ancient ‘iconic’ Dorset landmarks of Eggardon Hill (east of Bridport) and Maiden Castle, south-west of Dorchester.
WHERE CAN I FIND FURTHER INFORMATION? The Poetry Park apps are a continuation of SATSYMPH’s work with the South Dorset Ridgeway Landscape Partnership, Land of Bone and Stone and Dorset AONB. You can get an idea of what the apps cover by clicking here.
The Workshop Leader is SATSYMPH’s writer, Ralph Hoyte. Ralph created 1831 Riot! – the world’s first located audio-play for an intelligent environment – in 2004 with Mobile Bristol. He is currently collaborating with the University of the West of England Regional History Centre to create ‘Romancing the Gibbet’, another ‘located poetic walk’ about the theatrical public crime-scene executions of the 18th/early 19th century, set over the West Country.
POETRY PARKS WORKSHOP PROGRAMME (flexible)
|10.30-11.00||Meet and greet, teas and coffees|
|11.00-12.00||Indoors in workshop facility: intro / context / sharing of work to get a handle on where we’re all coming from|
|12.00-12.45||Lunch (bring own!)|
|12.45-15.30||· Car share/walk to location
· Absorbing the genius loci; collecting content (in writing / audio / visuals / any other means) & joined by archaeological expert.
|15.30-15.45||Car share back to workshop facility|
· impressions of the location
· indications of emerging work
· some things to think about overnight for the next day
|DAY 2||NOTE: if it’s fine weather, we may prefer to return to location and do all this there! Otherwise, in workshop|
|10.30 – 12.30||Contemplation, sharing and writing time – informally structured; getting work together, trying things out, practising delivery mechanisms etc|
|12.30-13.15||Lunch (bring own!)|
|13.30 – 16.15||· Practising for performance and recording|
Link to Askerswell Village Hall details: Hall Directions: From A35, follow signs to centre of village by telephone kiosk and post box. Leaving these on your right, head up the hill towards Spyway. On first bend take turning to right, signed Village Hall and Medway Farm. The hall is almost immediately on your right.
Frequently Asked Questions:
- Workshops are free
- only one 2-day workshop per person
- participants must commit to doing both days
- participants must agree with and sign the permissions document (see below)
- Group size maximum is 17 people
- First come, first served for booking
- Cancellations will be offered to the next names gathered on the list
- Tea and coffee/squash provided at the venues but not on location
- Participants bring their own lunches and flasks if they want warm drinks outside
- Bring their own writing materials and paper
- Bring any external seating etc.
- Bring suitable clothing for the weather conditions
- Provide their own transport to and from the venue and site
- Parking is available at both venues
- Please note toilet facilities (including disabled) are available at the venues but the sites have no toilet facilites
- A moderate level of fitness is required to fully move around the site
- The ground is uneven and steep in some areas and needs to be approached with caution
- Disabled access is extremely limited at Eggardon Hill and only possible at Maiden Castle to certain areas. In general, wheelchair access would prove difficult or impossible. We will do our best to support challenges around accessing the site.
Copies of permission forms are available from Emma Fernandez upon booking
STANDARD CONTRIBUTOR’S RELEASE FORM (example):
I understand and agree that:
- SATSYMPH may audio record and photograph me as part of the Poetry Parks workshop days at Maiden Castle or Eggardon Hill Fort.
- If I am audio recorded or photographed I understand my work may or may not be in in either of the Apps (Maiden castle or Eggardon Hill) but will be published online on a Poetry Parks Facebook Page, Soundcloud page and the new Land Bone and Stone interactive online map.
- The material recorded belongs to SATSYMPH and some content will be used in a mobile phone application created by SATSYMPH.
- SATSYMPH can use the material recorded in any form or media. This can be shown in the UK, Europe or anywhere in the world.
- Recordings and photographs documenting the project may be used for publicity purposes by Dorset AONB and other project partners.
- The copyright of any material generated as part of these workshops remains with the artist (writer).
Name of participant
Signature of participant
We can’t wait to work with you on this amazing project!
Yesterday I was reflecting how, at the tender age of 54 I feel as if I have reached my compositional stride, that I am now able to realise my intentions [and potential] more fully and how I have so much more to ‘give’ musically. Of course, this doesn’t matter to many people, and why should it, but it did make me realise, again, just how neglectful and downright wasteful our society is when it comes to the capabilities and potential of our middle aged and older composers, most of whom, even after very promising starts, are woefully neglected and underrepresented in concerts and promotion in favour of our often obsessive preoccupation with the achievements of the young; frequently to the expense of everything else. I’ve nothing against the young, of course, I was one of them once, nor opportunities for the young, but I’ve seen so many starry eyed young composers do well in their 20s only to find their 30s and 40s an unexpected desert of disappointment, unfulfillment and cold shouldering in favour of, yep, those now younger than them. It’s like watering a plant for a few months [over-watering in many cases] then cutting off the water altogether, so the plant withers and struggles. This, I’m afraid, is the ‘career structure’ that exists for all but the lucky few. I say ‘career structure’ tongue in cheek because nothing of the sort exists. Anyway, a lot to say here but I just wanted to make the point that there is a vast amount of amazing older compositional talent out there that never gets a look in and I see no signs of this changing any time soon. A travesty and monumental waste!
Marc met Max at the Hoy Summer School in 1994 when he was selected as one of ten composers to attend the course. Before this, Marc had no contact with other composers. The course proved to be a revelation and the start of Marc’s career as a composer. After the course Max told Marc that he wanted to support and promote his work. Subsequently Max organised Marc’s first commission with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra for the St. Magnus Festival in 1997 which Max conducted. Max went on to conduct a number of Marc’s other orchestral works including PAGAN II and I See Blue with the BBC Philharmonic and Gerwaundhaus Radio Orchestra in Leipzig, Germany. Marc became close friends with Max across the years and spent many weeks with him on Hoy and latterly Sandy on the Orkney Isles.
A number of commentators have defined Marc’s relationship to Max as that of a protege. Although Max never engaged in any form of formal teaching with Marc or inclined him to take up any of his compositional methods or aesthetics, Max was and continues to be a huge supporter of Marc’s work. They continue to share developments and ideas in their compositional practice with Max taking a great interest in Marc’s work with mobile technologies and asynchronous structural approaches in composition and visual art work. Max always remarked he was intrigued by two particular aspects of Marc’s development; how he had learned so much and could compose as he did without any formal training or support in composition or instrumental tuition, and that Marc was an accomplished painter, again without any training.
“Mr. Yeats has a surprising and I think unique artistic vision. When I first encountered his work I was very aware of a lack of professional training in musical composition and realised, next, that here were developments in the architecture and soundscape of his musical world which were quite unlike anything previously encountered. I presumed this was a direct result of his being forced by an extraordinary creative imagination and energy to find ways of circumnavigating these lacunae in practical musical experience . . . . . . by studying and learning very fast, to a degree of hot intensity I never encountered.” Sir Peter Maxwell Davies
“Marc Yeats’ musical voice is quite unlike anything else; the music is challenging to both performers and audiences, and very communicative. He produces extraordinary compositions that not only look and sound good, but demonstrate a very high level of academic learning, while being breathtakingly original.” Sir Peter Maxwell Davies
In 2004 Max dedicated his Scottish Chamber Orchestra string orchestra commission, ‘Fall of the Leafe’ “to the Skye composer and painter Marc Yeats”
Awards, Prizes, Commissions and Bursaries (selected)
1994 Hoy Summer School, SCO, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies – attendance bursary
1994 Scottish Arts Council Summer School and Travel Bursary.
1995 Scottish Arts Council Composer Bursary.
1995 Scottish Arts Council. Attendance fees for the Association of British Orchestras Conference.
1996 Scottish Arts Council Composer Bursary.
1997 Scottish Arts Council Composer Bursary.
1997 Commission – St Magnus Festival – 25 minute orchestral piece for the SCO
1997 Hope Scott Trust Composer Bursary (for 3 years).
1997 Scottish Arts Council Commission for visual art ‘Resound’ project.
1997 Prize winner – Next Millennium International Composers Award, Japan.
1999 The Arts Trust of Scotland – travel expenses for Italian performance.
1999 Commission – BBC – 32 minute orchestral work for the BBC Philharmonic and Kathryn Stott
1999 Commission – The London Sinfonietta – ensemble piece
2001 Commission – Kathryn Stott – solo work for saxophone
2001 Five Islands Project – Colour Songs: The National Lottery Access and Participation Scheme.
2001 Commission – Sarah Watts – solo work
2002 Commission – Hebridean Music Workshops SAC lottery funds – 40 minute ensemble work
2002 Commission – Hebridean Music Workshops – SAC lottery funds – 5 watercolour paintings
2002 Commission – ensemble piece – 175 East, New Zealand
2003 Commission – Lonba, Argentina – ensemble piece
2004 Commission – An Tuireann – Stillness in movement – 60” ensemble piece
2004 HI~Arts – Artist’s creative bursary
2005 Commission – Henri Bok – solo work
2005 Commission – Rotterdam Conservatorium – orchestral work
2005 First prize – international composing competition, WBCC, Rotterdam, Holland
2006 GO EVENTS – grant towards development of website music download facilities
2006 Hope Scott Trust – Funding towards the production costs of the new CD opera – Haar
2007 Commission – Scottish Clarinet Quartet – work for 4 bass clarinets and percussion
2007 Commission – Symposia – work for 4 instrumentalists and digital sound-track
2007 Commission – SCAW – new work for bass clarinet, piano and electronic sound-track
2007 Commission – Trio IAMA – new work for flute, cello and piano
2007 Scottish Arts Council – Professional Development Grant – developing new dance music.
2007 – 2009. An extensive list of commissions specifically referenced in Yeats’ music biography.
2008 Hallé Orchestra with My Blood is as Red as Yours for World Aids Day
2009 Arts Council England – Grants for the Arts – collaborative locomotive GPS music/word fusion.
2009 Kokoro – commission, ‘shadow and the moon’ for sextet.
2009 BBC commission. rhema for harpsichord circa 10mins. In total.
2010 Announced as Composer-in-Association with Manchester Pride
2010 1 of 5 shortlisted composers with PRSF NMA (Turner Prize for music) with SATSYMPH
2011 Commissioned work for Consortium5 recorder quintet for 2011 – ‘the bone eating snot flower’
2011 New work ‘crowded rooms’ for 14 instrumentalists for Leeds University in March 2011
2011 Commissioned work for silent film with Ensemble Amorpha (amorpha_shorts) for 20112011 Commissioned work ‘Eris’ for flute and viola Manchester Pride Music Festival 2011
2011 Commissioned work for a cappella massed amateur choirs ‘sturzstrom’ for 2012 Cultural Olympiad in Dorset (Coastal Voices)
2011 Commissioned work SATSYMPH – on a theme of Hermés
2011 Commissioned work ‘TLOS’ for violin, clarinet and piano – Elektrostatic Festival 2012
2011 Commissioned work ‘Worship of the Oak’ for Aquinas Piano trio and Manchester Pride Music Festival 2012
2012 Commissioned work ‘the magical control of rain’ for piano (Mark Spalding)
2012 Commissioned work ‘the need-fire’ string quartet for the Hillman Quartet and Corsham Festivals
2012 Commissioned work ‘black-bile’ for ensemble – for Thumb Ensemble
2012 Commissioned work ‘sanergia’ for MusicOrba Duo (piano four hands)
2012 Commissioned work ‘pathos’ (solo cello) for Antara Project
2012 Commissioned work ‘strange and artificial echo’ for solo quartertone alto flute for Carla Rees
2012 Commissioned work ‘quarter-sounds’ study in bass clarinet multiphonics for Sarah Watts
2012 Commissioned work ‘from manuscripts of moving song’ string quartet for the Bergersen Quartet
2013 Commissioned work ‘the shape distance’ mixed ensemble – Chamber Cartel US
2013 Commissioned work ‘through woods in riot’ brass quartet – Meridian Brass
2013 Commissioned work ‘corpuscular theory of light’ trio – Markus Wenninger
2013 Commissioned work ‘and cherries all black’ double bass and piano – Geert Callaert
2013 Commissioned work ‘lenten fires’ piano – Geert Callaert
2013 Commissioned work ‘the dog and the wolf’ mixed ensemble – We Are Wolfpack
2013 Commissioned work ‘invoco’ duo – Post-Haste Reed Duo – US
2013 Commissioned work ‘black root’ E flat clarinet – Markus Wenninger
2013 Commissioned work ‘a theft of cold moisture’ flute – Manchester Pride Classical Concert Series
2013 Commissioned work ‘hyran’ viola – Stephen Upshaw – UK
2013 Commissioned work ‘oros’ for 8 voices – Auditiv Vokal Dresden – Germany
2014 Commissioned work ‘vulgar gorgon’ rock ensemble – Clibber Jones Ensemble – US
2014 Commissioned work ‘sculptures in bright blue’ soprano and alto saxophone – KOEK Duo – US
2014 Commissioned work ‘a pathology of line’ bassoon and piano – Geert Callaert – Belgium
2014 Commissioned work ‘streaming’ alto flute – Carlton Vickers – US
2014 Commissioned work ‘new work’ piano, harp and 2 percussion – Chamber Cartel – US
2015 Commissioned work ‘observation 1 [ovington Down] String Quartet Composer-in-Residence to the Observatory- UK
2015 Commissioned work ‘observation 2 [oxey marsh] String Quartet Composer-in-Residence to the Observatory – UK
2015 Commissioned work ‘observation 1.5 [no man’s land] Trio for recorder, violin and cello – Sylvia Hinz and XelmYa Germany
2015 Commissioned work ‘the appointment of life’ – extended male voice, viola and percussion  – Carl Theimt Germany
2015 Commissioned work ‘observation 1.7 [longwood warren] Oboe, Flute and Violin – Ben Opie and Inventi Ensemble – AU
2015 Commissioned work ‘observation 1.7.5 Alto Flute, Bassoon and violin – Rarescale UK
2016 Commissioned work ‘william mumler’s spirit photography, piano – The Anatomy of Melancholy Crowd Funding Campaign – UK
2016 Commissioned work ‘burnt axon’, piano, Darinka Todorov – Serbia
2016 Commissioned work ‘Forget-Me-Not, vocal installation – Composer-in-Residence to Yeovil District and Dorchester County Hospitals – RefoundSound -UK
2016 Commissioned work ‘an uncomfortable condition’, flute and string quintet, La Cote Flute Festival – Switzerland
2016 Commissioned work ‘observation 6’, for piccolo, soprano saxophone, piano and percussion – Ensemble Suono Giallo – Italy and US
2016 Commissioned work ‘observation 7’ [gander down] for piccolo, oboe, trumpet, Horn, viola, double bass and percussion  – Homophonic Festival – AU
2016 Commissioned work ‘observation 4 [easton bevants] String Quartet Composer-in-Residence to the Observatory [extended series] – UK
2016 Commissioned work ‘observation 5 [perpendicular music] String Quartet Composer-in-Residence to the Observatory [extended series] – UK
Membership and Affiliations
1993 – 1996 Member of the Skye and Lochalsh Arts Council.
1995 – Member of the Performing Right Society.
1995 – Member of Mechanical Copyright Protection Society.
1996 – Nominated to full membership of the Composers’ Guild of Great Britain.
1996 – 2005 Board member for An Tuireann Arts Centre.
1997 – Artistic Director for Skye and Lochalsh New Music Festival.
1998 – 2000 Vice Chairman for An Tuireann Arts Centre.
1998 – 2003 Member of the British Academy of Composers and Songwriters.
2000 – 2005 Chairman of the Board of Directors, An Tuireann Arts Centre.
2006 – 2007 Board member – HI~Arts
2007 – Advisor to the Board of An Tuireann Arts Centre
2009 – Board member of PVA MediaLab, Bridport, Dorset
2009 – 2012 Chair of PVA MediaLab, Bridport, Dorset
2011 – Chair of Reach Dorset – therapeutic arts activities for people with mental health issues.
2011 – Set up SATSYMPH LLP as a founding partner.
2011 – Composer-in-Residence to SATSYMPH
2012 – 2016 Chair of DIVAcontemporary – artist-led arts organisation based in Dorset specialising in sound
2013 – Composer-in-residence to Chamber Cartel [US]
2014 – Composer Curator with Sound and Music
2015 – Composer Advisory Board, Sound and Music
2015 – 2016 Composer-in-residence to The Observatory
2016 – Composer-in-residence to Yeovil District and Dorchester County Hospitals
2016 – Taken on for worldwide management by Noel Music
Asynchronous composition: The context for this research is based in work exploring the transducted, semiotic and hermeneutical relationships between my work as a composer and visual artist.
I’ve always had a strong interest in relationships between the visual [my paintings] and the aural [my compositions] and have eagerly explored any opportunities to delve further into the way this works. Most recently, my role as Composer-in-Residence to the observatory allowed me to explore these relationships in the greatest depth. My imagination was full of impressions and ideas following the residency at Winchester Science Park as part of the observatory experience and I had a large collection of photographs, sketches and videos to draw upon [see Composer-in-Residence to the Observatory 1a]. These were external things – props, if you like – physical outcomes of my research into the site. Alongside these items was a vast soup of internal impressions, noises and intentions – all swimming around in my imagination like a bag of frogs, wriggling and seething and very difficult to hold onto. Together they comprised the evidence that I had experienced the wonderful chalk landscapes around Winchester but the prospect of starting a string quartet from scratch based upon these impressions – breaking the silence of the page with my little marks, dots and lines was a daunting prospect. Bringing something out of nothing always is.
My approach is to break my way in – charge through the door with bluster and see what happens on the other side. It’s a way of breaking the ice – and the fear! With painting I just throw stuff about with abandon and masses of kinetic energy in the hope that something will emerge. Invariably it does, as this almost violent act serves to break the virginity of the page and take away its power to immobilise; you can stare at the page or manuscript and feel intimidated by its whiteness or emptiness. It takes a mighty leap of faith to start. I take the same view to starting a piece of music, but it’s not so easy to just throw stuff around spontaneously when you’re dealing with notes. Some of my sketches from the residency were precursors to scores, undoubtedly, but they were not the final notation – they remained as frozen kinetics, sound suspended in line, and this sound needed to be reformatted into a more standardised notation to serve my purposes, a process that takes time and unfortunately, time is the enemy of spontaneity – deliberation kills it.
I have two methods that I hope enable me to develop spontaneity in my compositions baring in mind the limitations around real-time kinetic and gestural capture [I can’t notate as fast as I think but I can draw and paint very fast as there is a direct relationship between my thoughts, translation into movement on paper and the end result of the painting. For music this may apply in forms of graphic notation, which are repurposed forms of drawing, but for more standard forms of notation there is a degree of meticulous scribing that destroys spontaneity of gesture]. I labour this point because my remedy has led me to approach composition in very particular ways.
There are two aspects [at the very least] to the character of a finished piece of music as well as the way it is perceived by performer and audience, again from different perspectives; one is the ‘look and feel’ of the notation itself – what’s on the page, how it was put together, the sounds the notation implies etc., and the manner in which the music is performed or delivered to the listener. It is the combination of these two factors that combine to create the nature of the finished piece. Concept, notation and delivery become the same thing in aural terms – it’s the stuff we listen to! There is of course a whole other layer on top of this around how the music is perceived by the listener, but such reactions are way beyond my control – they remain the responsibility of the listener, so I will leave that well alone.
So, what are these two approaches I use to try and imbue spontaneity into my music?
The first involves me building any new pieces out of materials I already have – a ready made object is as good a term as any. This found object can be for any other instrument[s] and be a solo or ensemble piece. It is almost always a completed piece [as opposed to a sketch]. I choose the pre-existing piece I feel has some of the qualities I’m looking for in the new music I want to create. I then take that material and build onto it, destroy areas of it, distort it, lengthen, shorten, randomise pitches, cut up, amalgamate and mix up the original structures. I execute this process as quickly as I can. I don’t want to think or calculate outcomes at this stage – I’m trying to remove certain aspects of my decision making to allow chance and speed into the process [like the painting and drawing, I am hacking my way through material in a process of assimilation trusting that the rough edges I produce will bring a freshness, unpredictability and kinetic mobility to the notation].
‘observation three’ is an unforeseen extension to the observation string quartets as it brings the two quartets colliding together in antiphonal exchanges separated by the double bass who’s content borrows from, develops and underpins the two quartets it is flanked by. This collision generates entirely new contextual relationships between the material of the quartets. These new contexts are amplified by the double bass material to generate a dense and energetic new work for strings.
Throwing around this found object material ensures that I very quickly get over the blank page syndrome as the page is immediately covered with notation. My processes of transformation move the material I am working away from the original although there is invariably a genetic ghost remaining of the former piece. I don’t mind this at all – it brings a consistency of voice to my compositions, as they are all linked in real terms no matter how destructive the transformative process is. In rather loose terms, this process is a form of transduction – the changing of material from one state to another. I rather like the idea of being a notational alchemist as the processes I use at this stage are intuitive, responsive and reactionary.
This brings me onto the second method I use to engender spontaneity in my work that involves notation and notational process but is even more concerned with performance and delivery techniques – asynchronicity.
The first part of this process involves working up the material for all four instruments of the quartet in isolation and without reference to each other using the material as comes out of the first-stage process. I do this because I want each instrumental voice to feel like an independent entity with its own nature, dynamic, gestural and structural logic and strategic role to play. I don’t view these individual instruments as playing a supporting role in any harmonic sense to any other instrument – such supporting as arises is incidental and a perceived relationship by the listener rather than an intentioned one [in most instances, at least]. Each part has independent tempi, different bar structures and material occurring at different times. All of these ingredients will run similarly through all four parts but not necessarily simultaneously in real time when the parts are stacked vertically in performance. This brings me onto an interesting outcome. As instrumental parts are running at different speeds to each other [this is why the music is asynchronous] I cannot and do not produce scores, that is, I do not attempt to display the vertical alignment of materials in a printed, notational format as it would be a lie, it would attempt to fix something on the page that is not intended to be [so] fixed in real life and real time. A score, whilst being very pretty and very complicated to look at would give the wrong psychological message about what the music is and how it should be approached in performance and sound. A vertical score at some level implies fixed elements – totally fixed, even if the score attempts to mitigate against this using different devices and explanations – the reader will still approach it as a vertically aligned concept which they then have to break to get an impression of what’s really intended. For me this is a bit like putting a square peg into a round hole. It doesn’t work and should be avoided. So, I avoid it. No score.
observation 1.5 [no man’s land]: an example of an asynchronous trio.
observation 1: an example of an asynchronous string quartet.
and shapeshifter; an asynchronous ensemble piece:
[Research 3 Yeovil District Hospital]
I’ve now had a few more visits to Yeovil Hospital and these have helped me to formulate my ideas around the finished installation work and the type of vocal content I would like to populate it with.
Yeovil and Dorchester Hospitals are very different beast architecturally and it is clear there are more challenges around siting a sound installation in Yeovil Hospital than in Dorchester Hospital due to the design and layout of the building. I like a challenge so am undaunted about this and will explore the possibilities in the coming weeks with staff at Yeovil. In fact, one member of staff in particular who has been a joy to work with; Janine Valentine, Nurse Consultant for Older People.
Janine has shown me around a whole range of wards and departments in the hospital that come into contact with elderly patients and therefore a proportion of those who are confused or suffering from dementia. Without fail, the atmosphere and mood of the staff on the wards I have visited has been fantastic – happy and joyous, I’d say, and this wasn’t just because I was visiting; it was clear the care, attention, camaraderie and morale was extremely high. This made the wards feel friendly, homely and much less intimidating than these busy environments would suggest, especially to the elderly, frail and confused. There is a family feeling on the wards and it was this that leapt out at me as my first impression.
Janine Valentine: Nurse Consultant for Older People
As well as showing me around and meeting other staff, Janine and I had the opportunity to discuss the project. I enjoyed this bit especially, not least because Janine’s initial impressions around the outcomes of the finished piece – what it would sound like, what it would do and whom it was for where different from mine. Janine knew that my music wasn’t playful or melodic and had a tendency to be wild and dissonant.
Janine drew an interesting comparison between the intention of the music activities that occur on the wards – to soothe, entertain, provoke good memories, to stimulate participation and singing along – generally creating a good time for all, were markedly different from the outcomes of my music which could be complex, confrontational, overwhelming, not a sing-along and possibly disturbing for some.
Of course the difference in outcomes of these two activities lies with the intention of the artist [in my case] or musician in the case of on-ward activities and the audiences the outcomes are aimed at. The ward-based activities could be loosely described as therapeutic entertainment and are firmly geared towards patients. My work is neither a therapeutic activity, nor an entertainment and is aimed at a wider public including health and arts professionals with an aim of offering different perspectives around dementia when presented to audiences as an installation; a piece of art. My work is not designed for people with dementia and although being installed into public areas of each hospital for a time, the work will most likely spend most of its ‘life’ away from hospitals at arts and health conferences and arts festivals – again, reaching out to those wider audiences.
Once we had established the differences between my activity and the hospital-based therapeutic music activities I could see Janine was becoming very excited about the hospital being involved in something quite different to what had gone before and was quickly becoming as excited as me about the prospect of this new, possibly quite challenging work having a life and [hopefully] positive influence away from the hospital. I think Janine’s relationship to the idea of ‘dissonance’ in music may be on the move, too!
One outstanding area of research I needed to complete was to talk to someone about their personal experience caring for a loved one who developed dementia and what that meant to them from the very human side of living with and caring for someone who’s health consistently deteriorates until they pass away.
Janine introduced me to the amazing Sue Finer, an inspirational woman who has been on this journey with her late husband and is now sharing her thoughts about Alzheimer’s, a form of dementia, in a book she is writing. Sue is a volunteer at the hospital and has become a major advocate for the hospital’s work with dementia – in fact, the word volunteer is a little misleading as in many ways, her work with dementia has become an essential aspect of the hospital’s work advocating and supporting dementia care and activities within wider communities.
Sue very kindly spoke to me candidly about her husband’s disease, how it progressed, and how this impacted on their lives. These stories were very personal but also hugely universal to so many living with the effects and affects of dementia. It was the very personal nature of this conversation, the small details, insights and observations that really helped me to fill in the gaps in my knowledge and understanding. This information was also transformed [or at least will be] into content – vocal content, words and utterances for the installation.
Like Janine, Sue wasn’t quite sure exactly what my role as Composer-in-Residence to Yeovil District and Dorchester County Hospitals was and what sort of work was being proposed. We discussed this for some time. I talked Sue through my ideas, drew a few diagrams to illustrate how the installation would work and what sort of content would be in it – how I’d work with the choir to produce the music etc., and how I’d been conducting my research so far and where that had led me. Again, like Janine, Sue had spent some time online researching my work and listening to recordings of pieces and couldn’t make the leap between what she had heard from my asynchronous, noisy, complex music to an installation about dementia. A totally understandable position!
Sue had also read my REFOUND SOUND blogs but still was unclear where I was heading with everything, which is no surprise as there is a large aspect of the blog that is very much ‘thinking out loud’, and working through challenges and questions in an open manner. I call this ‘open research and practice development.’ It can be confusing for those looking in.
I could see the moment when Sue totally ‘got’ what I was telling her and she could imagine the finished installation and its sound-world and vocal content. It’s a wonderful moment when another person really resonates with what I’m proposing and moves from a position of uncertainty to becoming a firm ally and advocate for the work.
So now, throughout the month of April it is time to gather all this material together and produce the words and music ready for the recording session with the choir which is now confirmed for the 30th April.
It’s becoming more real!
This second blog is mainly dedicated to an article Dr Alex Murdin, Arts and Health coordinator at Dorchester Hospital has written about ReFound Sound and my role as composer-in-residence.
But before that, a little about my last visit to Dorchester Hospital.
After attending a cookery class on Barnes Ward [they were making rock cakes] and talking to a number of patients there [and after eating the cakes] Alex and I went on a tour of the hospital to look at potential sites for the installation piece I will be creating. I will need to do the same at Yeovil District Hospital in the coming weeks, too.
I am coming to the end of my research period and am now hunting for some specific feedback around how careers outside of the health profession manage the challenges of dementia, especially when the care being provided is for someone in the family such as a partner and this care is offered at home. More about this after my visit to Yeovil next week when I shall be meeting individuals who have direct experience of caring for loved ones with dementia.
The final compositional shape for the installation is gradually ‘solidifying’ in my mind’s eye and mind’s ear – it’s important for me to see and hear the ‘conceptual’ installation at this stage so I understand how to shape the content of the installation to fulfil the goals I have developed for the piece through this research period. Visiting the locations where the installation could be sited [such as the chapel in the previous blog] helps me to think of the piece in spatial terms and how the musical content can best be delivered in this context.
We had a look at a number of locations around the hospital.
These all have potential, and there is scope for the installation to move around to different parts of the hospital, too.
My favorites are these two more complex intersecting stairways that sit on different levels. As well as acting as a thoroughfare and crossroads for a number of wards, these areas are rich because of the potential they offer for spatial location of the installation vertically on the different floor levels and also horizontally along the corridors.
Permission must to be sought for the installation to be placed in any of these locations as there are a number of people who’s working or visitor / patient requirements for the space must be considered.
A sound installation can be less than enthusiastically received if it dominates a space or drives those who work in or near it to distraction. We need sympathetic hosts who are comfortable with the installation being present whilst being mindful of how the volume of the installation might effect those working in those installed areas.
How quiet can the installation be for it to work and be effective? In my view, an installation that whispers and quietly sings its content can be very effective and affecting. As Alex and I discussed this it became clear that the installation as envisaged would be completely flexible and installed as a whispering, ghostly shimera of sound, or, in another context, such as installed at a conference or arts event, much louder, creating a completely different experience for the audience. I like the idea of the work being adaptable as it increases the scope and possibilities for its continued and varied installation across widely differing locations and hosting needs.
I’d now like to introduce Dr Alex Murdin and the article he’s written about ReFound Sound and my role as composer-in-residence.
The tie between music and memory is one that we are born with and die with. Neurologically, in very simple terms, processing music involves the functioning of at least two different brain networks, as well as invoking those associated with language (songs with lyrics), movement (moving to the rhythm) and its interweaving with other long term memories (the soundtrack of our lives, our celebrations and significant moments). So when some parts of the brain deteriorate as part of conditions like dementia, where the hippocampus responsible for short term memory is effected, music is often preserved as part of other brain function and is able to bring back important memories. So called “implicit musical memory”, which is the subconscious absorption of musical melodies, may be spared until very late stages of the disease (“Why musical memory can be preserved in advanced Alzheimer’s disease” (2015), Jacobsen et al. [Online: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/06/03/brain.awv135#ref-59]). Professor Paul Robertson, a concert violinist and academic who has made a study of music in dementia care, puts it another way: “We tend to remain contactable as musical beings on some level right up to the very end of life, we know that the auditory system of the brain is the first to fully function at 16 weeks, which means that you are musically receptive long before anything else. So it’s a case of first in, last out when it comes to a dementia-type breakdown of memory.”
It seemed very interesting to us (the Arts in Hospital producers at Dorchester and Yeovil Hospitals) to explore what musicians can do to help us to help those with dementia at our hospitals and in the wider community, as an ageing population means that there will be more and more with forms of cognitive impairment. Both hospitals had already worked together on music programmes before, bringing in live music to the wards with great effect, improving eating, sleep and levels of activity in patients, not to mention the sheer joy it brings – as one nurse said: “I’ve seen patients come alive in front of my eyes”. We therefore wanted to carry on with this work and also to spread the message to health professionals, care workers and carers that music is a powerful medicine. Hence the Arts Council, DCH Hospital Charity and Yeovil Council funded “Refound Sound”, a project which has commissioned more live music in wards and more unusually a composer in residence to write a new piece of music related to memory, music and place.
With the composer in residence we wanted to approach the idea as a research project. Not though in the way typical to the field of arts and health. For the most part those involved in arts and health have focussed on the scientific validation of art as having therapeutic value with direct causal outcomes, better sleep, less painkillers needed, quicker return home etc. (all of which are currently being proven in different fields of scientific research like the examples above). This is part of a burgeoning body of evidence designed to convince health commissioners to spend resources from mainstream health care budgets. With the commission for the composer in residence though we wanted to re-emphasise the innovative potential of the arts as an aesthetic practice, i.e. sensory, piece of research into a situation, context or environment through art in action. Perhaps the greatest thinker on health and society this century, Michel Foucault, describes the idea of forms of practice as research: “Practice is a set of relays from one theoretical point to another, and theory is a relay from one practice to another. No theory can develop without eventually encountering a wall, and practice is necessary for piercing this wall.”
To this end the composer, Marc Yeats, was appointed as he has experimented with the limits of the affective potential of music on a wide spectrum in order to reconfigure simplistic binaries of beautiful/ugly, harmonious/discordant, wellbeing/illness etc. In this sense his musical practice is already a prefigurement of the condition of dementia which is a breakdown of brain functions which are applied to regulating normal social relations, judgements about environment, personal activities and day to day life. Our hope is therefore that the resulting work by Marc reaffirms an aesthetic approach to health and wellbeing as a valid research tool, with affective outcomes that nevertheless effectively move people in real ways to reconsider personal and professional approaches to treating and caring for those with dementia.
Dr Alex Murdin
composer-in-residence to Yeovil District and Dorchester County Hospitals
Context and brief:
Re-found Sound is a new live music collaboration between Yeovil District Hospital Charity (YDHC) and Arts in Hospital at Dorset County Hospital (AiH), supported by Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra & the Wigmore Hall. The project runs from January 2016 to September 2016 and will:
• Commission an innovative musician in residence to work across the hospitals, researching and exploring the relationship of memory to place, resulting in a new piece of contemporary music for broadcast and performance.
The project is funded by Arts Council England, Dorset County Hospital Charity, Yeovil District Hospital NHS Foundation Trust and South Somerset District Council.
Residency and commission
YDH and AiH would therefore like to commission an innovative musician to research the relationship between music, memory and place and compose a response. We envisage a piece of music based on connections between:
• the environment, landscape and history connecting South Somerset and West Dorset
• hospitals as places in their own right, their architecture,surroundings and the communities that use the hospitals – patients, staff and visitors
• memories of place, memory-loss and the condition of dementia
Practically speaking we would like the commissioned musician to spend time at both hospitals, meeting staff involved in dementia work, patients themselves and people from other organisations who are familiar with Dorset and Somerset history and music as appropriate. There is the potential to provide space for activities to engage staff, patients or visitors at the hospitals (or facilitate engagement through other media e.g. hospital radio, newsletters etc.), but there is no studio space or music equipment available at this time.
We expect that there will be at least one opportunity for all musicians working through the other strands of Re-found Sound to meet together to share learning and experiences as part of the process. We wish to learn from the project process and to share this with others so there is also an expectation that the commissioned musician will keep a record of the project’s development, for example a diary, and participate in evaluation.
So, that was the brief. Now, onto . . . .
Writing a piece of music about Dementia – now, that really is a challenge. Where to start with such a huge topic? And, for a composer like me who believes that music doesn’t necessarily ‘say’ anything in a way that transmits and communicates clearly and consistently from one person to another, the opportunity to write a piece that is about, inspired by, informed by Dementia is perhaps the biggest compositional challenge I have ever faced, not least because it is such an important and emotive subject, a topic that will touch all our lives in one way or another at some time. This is BIG!
I have just completed my first few research sessions at Dorchester County Hospital and have come away a little clearer about what I can do creatively and what I can’t, certainly around methodology to gather content. As ever, I trust that the process of research and just thinking [informally, in the background] will make things clearer for me as I go along.
There’s art in the hospital in the most unexpected of places!
But first to recap:
When I applied for this post I constructed a model around what I ‘might’ make and how I ‘might’ go about making it. This model was purely a structure to hook ideas onto so I had something to work with. The model was disposable, adaptable; my experiences in the past had taught me that predetermined plans always changed in these circumstances, sometimes radically. I could feel some aspects of my model quickly slipping away.
My starting point was this very model:
I have a great interest in composition commissions that draw upon researching unusual starting points and content that effect decisions influencing the compositional process and finished piece of music. Music is not an exact science and notions of quality and meaning remain fully subjective.
Composers are often asked about the meaning of their work and most resort to a description of process of making to answer the question. This is never a true reflection of what any piece of music means or its value to, or impact on any one person. Music that is based on research of the type proposed here has a number of pointers that can inform composer and audience of the reasons why choices around process and outcome were made and how these choices related to the subject being researched. Even with a strongly demonstrable research background, the composer’s and listener’s perceptions will involve levels of subjectivity and intuition around the best ways to communicate meaning, be that in a narrative or non-narrative context. This is the joy and mystery of music – we really have no idea what it is!
In the context of ‘refound sound’ where issues around the impact of Dementia and Alzheimer’s Disease on peoples lives is being researched, issues of memory, perception, relationships, loss and connectivity are paramount. These are also issues that concern a composer within the composition of a piece of music as well as the formation of assumptions around how an audience will respond to it. These correlations can be the subject of compositional research that has the potential to greatly effect the decisions a composer makes around the content for a piece of work and its presentation to audiences.
In short, the challenge and excitement of this brief is in discovering exactly what impact the residency and research will have upon my practice as a composer and how this will influence the outcome of that experience – the composition itself.
What am I proposing?
As I have not yet undertaken the research I cannot predict the ultimate shape of the finished work and even less so, the content that will populate it. At this stage I am building a concept around assumptions. This concept can be moderated, broken and replaced completely and I present it here as a model of thinking to approach this application and the residency. I do find an initial model useful as a way to think how the work could be presented and disseminated [practical considerations] and therefore provide an initial structure to work backwards from, helping focus methods for content creation based around the residency and research.
This newly commissioned work could be a sound installation with the potential to be located in any room or building within or outside a hospital setting. The research and residency period could see me interviewing people affected by and working with Dementia through sensitive, gentle and informal conversation. These conversations may be recorded or I may take written notes whilst conversing. Confidentiality will be respected at all times and any permissions necessary will be sort. These conversations will be participant led [they will disclose what they feel comfortable with – I will not pry with questions] and I will explain clearly and carefully what I am doing and why I am doing it. All content would remain anonymous.
This research would result in a series of interviews containing verbal or written information. I would sort through the material and select words or phrases that have [to me] a particular potency or resonance in relation to the the project brief [environment, spaces, memory, loss, history etc.]. It is these words and phrases that could become the vocal [or possibly verbal] content for the new piece. I may use professional singers, a choir or perhaps voice artists to deliver this material through music I would have composed with the content being sung, spoken or intoned]
Studio or live recordings of the singers or choir could be recorded as they perform fragments of my composition. I would then assemble these fragments into larger musical strands or tracks. Each track may be 15-20 minutes long and each a slightly different length. I would envisage 4-8 tracks. These tracks will then be ready to load onto mini mp3 players with their connected speakers. Each mp3 player and speaker can then be installed, secretively into any space, large or small to create the installation. The performance will involve playing all the tracks simultaneously [on continuous loop] resulting in unforeseen and serendipitous relationships between all the tracks. The resultant composition could be spatially exciting, beguiling, beautiful, reflective, surprising and engaging. These hidden voices will become part of the fabric of any space it is installed in.
Music would be through-composed in its individual vocal tracks but asynchronous in its delivery leading to a richly varied and constantly renewing musical experience. A performance could last a few minutes to a few days and each installation and experience will be a unique iteration of the composition. The audience can drop in, stay, contemplate, pass through. There will be no obligation to sit through a traditional performance – people can wander through it and come and go as they please.
As the material is digitally formatted it becomes an easy step to create fixed iterations of the installation by mixing a version within mixing software [which I have] leading to the preparation of tracks for radio broadcast and easy sharing on social media platforms to help engage the widest possible audiences in the output of the project. Again, tracks can be formatted to any length.
Asynchronous delivery of the composition as described above has an additional resonance in connection with the project brief around memory, loss, changing perspectives and contexts, landscapes [musical], experience and understanding as the constantly iterative nature of the delivery of the composition means it can never be known, there will be reoccurring familiar and recognisable aspects but the piece is always in flux as it permutates its content in ever changing contexts reflecting, perhaps, the changing nature of memory and perception associated with Dementia.
Back to the first research sessions at the hospital:
So, that was the model – a concept for a piece and a bunch of techniques around how to achieve it. Luckily, enough of the model survived after my first visit to Dorchester County Hospitla for me not to feel totally crestfallen. Yes, it was going to be a work using the human voice, a choral piece. Yes, it was going to be an installation piece; dissemination and performance aspects were as yet unchanged. However, what had radically altered were the methods I was going to use to generate the content for this piece – that route was now closed to me.
Challenges around confidentiality and consent:
I had hoped to be able to record conversations with patients, families, careers, medical staff etc., on my iPhone, not to use as recordings within the piece but to listen to, post interviews, so I could copy down the occasional snippet, phrase or remark that I thought had mileage within the piece – sort of poetic fragments that I happened upon. I thought too that I may be able to take some photographs of hands to capture something of various peoples characters anonymously.
Both photographs of hands and recording conversations with various parties proved to be impossible because of safeguarding regulations, permissions and consents. As you can imagine, gaining informed consent from people who are confused is impossible and a legal minefield.
So that was that. My idea of getting verbal content straight from the horse’s mouth was no longer tenable. I should have known really; the regulations around permissions of this sort are complex and rightly so when peoples’ identities, families and friends can all be implicated in unforeseen ways. Best to avoid the need for consent entirely.
The complications around consent became very clear to me after my morning conversation with Alex Murdin, Arts in Hospital coordinator at Dorchester. I had to think on my feet as my research sessions were about to start. I needed to know how I was going to collect information so I could capture anything valuable I found for the piece without contravening permissions and confidentialities. It was whilst we were talking around this challenge that I had a light bulb moment based on a seedling idea I had a few days ago whilst brain-idling.
It occurred to me that like a storyteller, I would listen and perhaps write down the odd comment; or not, and absorb what was being said; the intent, emotional weight and content, as someone who was telling another person a story of what they had seen or experienced. Rather than collecting material ‘in the first person’, I would come away from my research sessions and regurgitate what had stuck in my mind, the impressions and phrases as best I could remember. If I embroidered or exaggerated or invented a little, it didn’t matter. This wasn’t a news real or a work of science; I wasn’t trying to reconstruct a work of fact; how could I? – this is music; it can only mean what the audience bring to it no matter what I put into it. However, the words and phrases could carry a great deal of weight if sufficiently resonant. It’s ‘golden nuggets’ such as these I’ll be on the lookout for.
One of the nursing staff told me of a short phrase that was uttered to her over and over again by a patient. The phrase stayed with her. It stayed with me too!
“I was locked in a cupboard.”
A little phrase with a huge, complex resonance. This will become one of my ‘golden nuggets’.
After speaking to the staff at Dorchester County Hospital on a range of wards and also seeing activities designed to help engage people with Dementia with their own memories, lives and surroundings it is apparent just how much dedication, humanity, compassion and professionalism is offered to patients by the teams who look after their wellbeing. All members of staff are undergoing constant training and support to understand how best to care for people who are confused or suffering from Dementia. Exact diagnosis and aetiology isn’t always clear to establish but the sensitivity with which any person entering the hospital is met, especially those who are frail and confused, is excellent and well thought through.
On certain wards the decor has been changed to make the hospital a less daunting environment, wards and bed-bays have been colour coded with specially commissioned artwork to break up the uniformity of the ward layout with more personalised and attractive spaces. On wards specialising in the care of the elderly the nursing stations have been redesigned and sometimes moved to create more open, social and comfortable spaces for patients and relatives to meet.
All in all a lot of thought has gone into the hospital environment to make it as friendly and unintimidating to confused patients as possible.
I was particularly taken by the Day Room on Barnes ward where older objects, clocks, fireplaces and radios had been brought into create more familiar and age appropriate spaces for elderly people who are more comfortable in surroundings that reflect or connect with their lives and experiences. The Day Room is also an area that is used for various activities such as music making, listening, conversation and crafts.
Patients who are confused or have Dementia generally enter the hospital via Accident and Emergency departments because of trauma [broken bones after falls, for example] or medical reasons such as infections and illness. Their confusion is a secondary consideration that brings with it further challenges for the medical staff caring for them over and above the primary condition. Patients coming into hospitals may experience many degrees of confusion and it is true to say that entering the hustle and bustle of a busy hospital environment away from personal routines and familiar surroundings can exacerbate any sense of confusion someone may already have. People with Dementia on trauma and medial wards are frequently with other patients of all age with similar primary conditions [trauma or medical]. Here, the nursing staff skilfully provide a full, personally tailored and considered care plan for everyone on their wards. Being able to manage such varied and challenging needs with such good spirit is a true testament to the calibre of people working on the wards. One thing was clear from the outset; these wards are happy places where staff are well motivated and engaged at the highest level with their work and the wellbeing of others.Ideas of structure and anonymising information:
I have already mentioned using myself as a collector of anecdotes and pieces of information that I hear and writing these down ‘after the fact’ as third party observations to use as content for vocalisations in my piece.
Additionally I have had the idea of collecting first names and surnames [and mixing these up] or even made up, to create lists of imaginary people, to do the same with occupations and ages, places where people live, a few medical terms, a range of anecdotes and phrases and so on to create this sort of ‘hive mind’ of people and experiences.
I can see [hear] these as being different trains of though all brought together at the same time and interacting with each other to create an ever varied world or people and experiences all related to Dementia.
Why am I thinking like this?
Because I realise that Dementia is something that touches and will touch all of us, that it is no respecter of class, religion, faith, occupation, lifestyle, experience or race. That is can effect young people as well as older people, that it is, in fact, everyone’s condition – it is human-wide. To reflect that I want to create a piece that includes all voices, all names, all occupations and so on, to make it feel universal and relevant to everyone.
Additionally, and going back to my original thoughts, I would like the way these various strands of musical activity interact asynchronously with each other to in some way affect those who experience the installation – to make them feel a little bewildered, out of context, surrounded by an environment where nothing remains the same and perceptions are challenged and where the content is poignant and resonant causing reflection and awareness around the human condition that exists within and around Dementia.
That’s a pretty ambitious goal to have!